The Centre for Healing Blog


Alexandra Corless Interviews Melissa Hiemann about Root Cause Therapy

childhood trauma nervous system root-cause therapy subjective experience trauma informed traumahealing Apr 27, 2023

Interview with Alexandra Corless (Transcript) 

13:55 - Alexandra Corless
 Okay, my name is uh, Alexandra and uh.

14:09 - Alexandra Corless
So thankful for the opportunity to, have this interview with Melissa, She is known as the co founder of the Centre for Healing. She is the creator of certified courses, and she has written a book, Natural High Melissa Can you give us a short bio about yourself in relation to the Centre for Healing, Your Wise and how you did it?

14:49 - Melissa Hiemann
Sure so I started my journey of I guess changing careers discovering transformative therapies I think it was twenty fourteen or fifteen and then it changed my life so much that I wanted to study it and then I kind of went on my own journey on my own but then I crossed paths with Ryan who wanted help with his addiction and mental health and I was constantly working on my because my relationships shit I couldn't manage my money like I had all these negative patterns had addictions all of that so it was like a huge journey for me and then I was able to help him and then he went to study like mainstream mental health and addiction recovery and he kept asking the teacher he's like when are you guys going to talk about trauma when you and they're like we don't and so he came to me and said could you teach me everything you know and so I had basically done one certification in NLP like a short one.

15:55 - Melissa Hiemann
Everything else was self taught, and after my awakening, I downloaded so much and I learned so much, I was like, okay, here's like the million books that I've read and here's the manuals and like everything. And I was trying to teach him by working with him. And so at one point we both said to each other, I think we should open a center together, like a mental health and addiction center, because I love mental health. He loves working with addiction because he was able to overcome his addictions and so we had nothing.

16:27 - Melissa Hiemann
He just finished being a drug addict. Basically, I had finished like a year of just kind of mucking around and studying and creating my method, my 1st method that I created root cause therapy. And so when we came together, we, I was able to like find an office that was like really dingy and old and cheap. We borrowed like a thousand dollars from Ryan's parents to paid the 1st month's rent that we were able to get the people to leave their old furniture. We literally started red and we're gonna, feel this.

17:00 - Melissa Hiemann
Is right. It feels like really aligned and we feel like this is our purpose to change the mental health and addiction industry. And so we just decided to like, we're going to create these programs. If it works, it'll work and will grow, and if it doesn't, but at least we give it a try. So we literally like there was a few things that supported us. So all of a sudden Ryan was able to get a feature article in the Heralds Son, which is like a big newspaper in Melbourne, and so like that came through and we hadn't even finished setting up the office and I'm like typing up the program as I'm like taking calls like, so the universe really supported us initially and just our combination of hard work, working 12 h, twelve hour days for six months and then we took on a team member and then we grew within a matter of a year to a team of five into a bigger healing space.

17:51 - Melissa Hiemann
So we did that for like a while, four and a half years and then we, yeah, then we had a like, then we ended up together or business partners, then we ended up together, then we had a son together and that just. Changed everything where. And I had this really strong intuition like the future is online and we should move overseas. And this is like crazy because we have a baby. But we did it we told our staff we'll send them clients, but we're closing the physical center, we're making it online, and yeah, we're the last plane to Thailand before the lockdowns.

18:30 - Melissa Hiemann
And so like, following your intuition like Crazy to other people.

18:32 - Alexandra Corless
Oh, Melissa

18:34 - Melissa Hiemann
But we were free for a year over there on a tropical island. And that was the start of like selling. That was the start of like really me letting go of root cause therapy. Like I wanted to keep in the center. I was like so protective, like this is my baby. The results so amazing as you know, you're a student. And so it was like a huge journey for me of like opening it up to the public and sharing our methods. So that is just basically the center of healing. And since then, Ryan's created courses and we've built it.

19:00 - Melissa Hiemann
We created more courses and we have an amazing community around the world. So that's a little background. There.

19:15 - Alexandra Corless
This is the reason why I'm so keen on interviewing you because I'm still in that amazement. Yeah, since You know, like uh, going through these courses and it's so many light bulbs going off and on. It's just the results are stunning, like everything, you know, I mean, total all, how you build it all up and how you put things together and uh, it's just so effective and I like, effective, so yeah. And in regards to your work, what are your favorite authors and why? So you incorporated quite a bit there.

20:04 - Melissa Hiemann
Yeah, I mean I'm, I'm not a huge reader at the moment, but I guess the main life changing authors or books that I've read is Hawkins. So he's got books of the scale of sorry. Power versus force. That's the main book that was life changing for me, and a part of watching his lectures really was a big creator behind root cause therapy and helping people overcome their behaviors. And then the other one is early on. Dr. De Martini The values factor that for me early stages on in my personal development journey was very eye opening, very life changing e car to a so the power of now that was really amazing.

20:56 - Melissa Hiemann
And then also Don Miguel Rus, who created the four agreements and everything I'm saying to you, Alexander, you've seen this in the book list when you guys enrol.

21:16 - Alexandra Corless
I got them all. That's, that's very um, so fearful and yeah, it helped me. All these new understanding help me very much in my own relationship and With everything, my whole life, with my work, you know. So I'm forever grateful that I've found you, Melissa, and your Centre for Healing and your course. No regrets there.

21:50 - Melissa Hiemann
When I wrote my own book, when I wrote The Natural High, that was because we had closed the outpatient clinic for addiction recovery, but we were still getting many people like referring us and trying to book with us, and we could only take so many people ourselves online. And so I was like kind of out of feeling bad, I wrote the book just as a short book for people to read with the things that help me and rhyme with our addictions. And so, yeah, that's why I wrote The Natural High How to overcome instant gratification of Find in a piece.

22:26 - Melissa Hiemann
And it's very short read, but it's for people that don't reading I've had a of people email like I don't like reading, but it was so easy and short to read that like it's ignited my passion for reading again and it was eye opening for them in relation to addictions for themselves or their loved ones. So just that I like put that in there with the author.

22:46 - Alexandra Corless
Thank you, my God. I mean, you get constantly so great reviews, you know, it's just a never ending, rolling, incoming, amazing reviews. I mean you certainly make a lot of people happy, so. Okay, And for who, the Center for Healing Courses, I mean. Is it for everybody, or.

23:23 - Melissa Hiemann
Yeah, so the way that we created the courses and I think it came from my background of really struggling at school and all the trauma that I went through and I've really created the classes to be like either it's someone that wants to get into the healing or therapy industry and they don't have any previous experience. So we make it simple enough for those people to learn the frameworks in a very, the way that I teach is very step by step practical, like this is what you do next, this is what you do next.

23:56 - Melissa Hiemann
Because I found that was missing from the training that I received. It was very theory heavy, but then a lot of people that I hear that go through the mainstream. Psychology, counseling and all that. They learn all the theory, but then they, there's so many times because I'm in groups, do I actually a session do I help someone? And I'm like, you've gone to uni for, like he, like I make sure that like we do have the theory, but it's very like this is how like you run, like making it simple.

24:28 - Melissa Hiemann
Or for people And then a lot of our clients are of course, people that are already healers, coaches, counselors, practitioners, therapists, and either they want to add tools like they feel like something is missing. A lot of our courses are all about healing trauma and that's like a really big deal at the moment everyone's, especially after the last few years. And so being having trauma informed courses is really important. So a lot of people have recognized, okay, people are presenting with trauma, how to actually help them heal it.

25:02 - Melissa Hiemann
So our courses are aimed towards that. So yeah, so kind of the spectrum from people that are just getting into it, maybe they've gone in their own healing journey now they feel like it's their purpose to help others or people that are already some kind of practitioner and they want to get a certification or upgrade their knowledge in their tool box. 

25:25 - Alexandra Corless
Okay, it's really like, I really like the whole package, you know. It's such a great package, it makes so much sense. So and what would the clients be, for who are these therapies and coaching and If you could focus there a little bit on Rct, your big baby, your big 1st babe,

25:51 - Melissa Hiemann
And also I just want to touch on. And the last point is we offer business and marketing training and I think that's missing from a lot of practitioner training. So it's like, that's great that I've learned something, but how do I get out there? So we offer that as well. But yet in relation like the client so in relation to root cause therapy, that's the main method that we used at the Centre for Healing for years. And that was like the main, that was like the core of helped clients. Our success rate was actually huge compared to normal mainstream therapy.

26:27 - Melissa Hiemann
So because it was alternative at the start we were getting great results, but we were trying to get referrals doctors and stuff, and they were just like rolling their eyes and huffing and not even like talking to us. And then by the end we were getting referrals psychologists, detox centers. Like with that, because the people that was going to see them were saying. Hey, I was, I'm getting such amazing results, you should know about them. Then we organically, we're getting a lot more people.

27:06 - Melissa Hiemann
So the way that we treat people and how it's different. And the thing with root cause therapy, it is about instead of playing around like with talk therapy and trying to get people to change their habits or just stop what they're doing, the whole thing is to get to the root cause and shift the reason why they're having that behavior, release the emotional charge that is embedding that behavior in their subconscious and then getting the learnings from that. And so what that does, it kind of permanently shifts.

27:40 - Melissa Hiemann
Bad habits or negative patterns or negative self talk from the roots. So like literally talk therapy. And I'm not begging talk therapy because it is a part of our sessions. But when you do just do talk therapy, like imagine a tree, you're just cutting the leaves and maybe some of the branches, but it can grow back, right? And so that's why practitioners can get frustrated or even people give up because they're like, I've tried for years and years, I've stopped my drugs, bad habits, whatever, but like, I feel like crap all the time and I feel like it's a constant fight every day where it root therapy, we're pulling it out from the root so it can't even grow back.

28:20 - Melissa Hiemann
And they have that post traumatic growth rather than they have to have tools to deal with how they're feeling every day. It's a deeper understanding of why, the way they, they are and then also shifting those behaviors by healing. I hope that kind of is what you are ask. Yeah.

28:44 - Alexandra Corless
It's uh, yeah, I really like this, explanation. So that's why for my practice I chose the tree.

28:57 - Melissa Hiemann

28:58 - Alexandra Corless
It's I, I use it a lot. So yeah, I love it totally. Okay. And what issues can you solve for clients? And an in coaching, yeah.

29:17 - Melissa Hiemann
I mean. So yeah, we've got, we've got the two, I've got my two main horses and Ryan has his. The way that these therapies are is that you can use a framework with basically any symptoms that are arising. So basically symptoms that are put into categories in the DSM Five, like when you get labeled with having depression or anxiety and things like that, they're usually a bunch of symptoms are ticked and then they're like, okay, you have this label with root cause therapy and even the other courses.

29:51 - Melissa Hiemann
We kind of say, okay, what are the symptoms that you're dealing with, like how do you feel day to day, what are the habits that you have that you don't want to have anymore, the inner self talk, the procrastination, etc. Physical health, emotional health We're looking at the symptoms individually and asking the clients body, like the intelligence of their unconscious minor body, what is the root cause of this symptom and You know, there are protocols like there is an anxiety protocol, depression protocol, migraine protocol, physical health protocol, all these protocols, sleep protocol.

30:33 - Melissa Hiemann
So over the years I have obviously got a lot of experience around working with each thing and we could have specific information, but it is about actually guiding the client's healing and so we just ask in the client's mind and body, like, where do we need to go here to rest? Finally resolve this, this particular stem. So yeah, I mean in terms of labels, we're just about okay, how do we help you feel better now moving forward? How can we help you resolve the path? So it, it's not a part of your experience anymore.

31:07 - Alexandra Corless
Yeah, I can confirm that and is the, I mean the whole set up. You've chosen to set up. It's such a win for everybody, you know there is such a win, win thing going on and for so many, for everybody involved, basically. Do you want to say something to idea Of

31:36 - Melissa Hiemann
I sure. So that I, so basically, and this is something that I teach in the manifestation certification. It's, it's like once you, I guess, awaken to yourself and awaken to your higher power, you then are like, okay, I have this mission to help people and you have your own vehicle of doing that. And so for Ryan and I, it was more like, okay, how can we use our experience to help others? And I feel like this is like our soul calling. So it's kind of like waking up every morning and asking your soul in the highest good of all, what will you have me do?

32:11 - Melissa Hiemann
And so it isn't just about us, it's about the collective consciousness, how can we create a positive ripple effect? And so the good thing about that is that it is always us considering the ecology of, yeah, is it a win for us, a win for you guys, a win for the collective? And so that's kind of like always the ethos. And I even. When we picked the name, we blind muscle tested against the scar, conscious like what is the highest vibration name? Again, it's not about us, it's about what's best for the collective terms of everything.

32:55 - Alexandra Corless
That's for one.

32:56 - Melissa Hiemann
That we do, yeah.

33:01 - Alexandra Corless
And just to summarize, what is the difference to other therapies that are out there or coaching? And why are your courses outstanding? The importance of the differences.

33:16 - Melissa Hiemann
Thanks for saying it's outstanding.

33:20 - Alexandra Corless
It's out route the whole internet, you know, and I was looking, I need. This was just the thing for me, you know, that's kind of solved all my problems.

33:37 - Alexandra Corless
So yeah, it's outstanding for me definitely.

33:41 - Melissa Hiemann
I love You. Yeah, I think, I think that everything has its place and I end up just like, as you know, we just end up adding more and more classes and content because as we discover more trans transformative therapies, we like want to share that. So there's so many modalities that are like kind of mixed in together, but kind of with that trauma informed lens which is our thing. And I think that for us, for us to say, I mean I was just saying talk therapy alone isn't helpful. It not everything works for everyone and people need different things at different stages.

34:19 - Melissa Hiemann
The work that we do is for when people are ready to go really deep. They've had enough. They actually want some huge, like big transformation, but they're ready to dive into the shadow aspects, they, they're ready to dive into the trauma. So it's not just like casual light work that we're doing, it's not just coaching, it's not just counseling, it's not just talking to a friend, it's Diving into the deeper aspects of our shadows. So it's definitely not for everyone or everyone just yet.

34:58 - Melissa Hiemann
Like people have to be kind of ready for that and we don't lie about that. I mean, we write trauma all over the website and like in the courses and everything like that. So that's probably the difference is I don't really want to put down other modalities. They all have their place. But that's just if people, you know, for practitioners, if they keep seeing clients and they can't help them shift their behaviors, but they and they can see charm and presenting, they might want to add something like our course to their toolbox so they have that ability.

35:30 - Melissa Hiemann
In the whatever space that they're in to be able to help people shift on a deeper level, that they already have trust and rapport with those clients rather than always having to refer out. So it's our hope to even. That's why one of our courses is free, the trauma informed coaching certificate. We made it free because like, how can we make the biggest dent in the industry where it really needs to be trauma informed? And the And even we've got so many different people that have joined that yoga teachers.

36:00 - Melissa Hiemann
Teachers, meds, like from all walks of life, people that are working in the hospitals. I mean, it's just actually kind of gone viral and it's been really amazing,

36:12 - Alexandra Corless
Holy. And I've sent it to people and you and too, and they were, oh, that's so great, you know, they are really grateful. All this information, you know, they, it helps them so much, whatever they do, you know, Yeah, absolutely.

36:31 - Melissa Hiemann
And you know, within The Centre for Healing, we've got my classes that, you know, there's a mixture of it being practical and woo and then really woo in the manifesting course. And then you've got Ryan and Matt a bit more scientific, but they also touch on spirituality. So we do have kind of that masculine and feminine, that different energy, different courses for different people and that might grow in future whether we take on more teachers. I mean in my mind the, the big vision for me is, I mean our logo is a pyramid, like, so whether it's a physical pyramid or a pyramid just in the, I want to have be almost like a healing kind of university that one day.

37:11 - Melissa Hiemann
And that's the vision that I connect with every day. So the little bumps the way are just like little bumps I know my sock. And I remember even before when me and Ryan were thinking of creating Centre for Healing, I went to a park and I sat down and I drew like a pyramid university and all the levels and there's like a cafe. Yeah, yeah. And it was just like this and, and so every. Time. I feel like, oh, today is hard or this is challenging or whatever. They connect with that bigger vision. And so I believe that's like what?

37:44 - Melissa Hiemann
That's why I try and share with you guys to connect with your vision. What you feel like is your calling. And that'll help day to day with being a human, but also feeling like fulfilled and serving, you know,

38:00 - Alexandra Corless
I love that totally. So. And why is being trauma informed in breaking the trauma cycle so important?

38:10 - Melissa Hiemann
Oh, my gosh. Like,

38:12 - Alexandra Corless

38:14 - Melissa Hiemann
It's everything because well firstly like ninety percent of people don't even know that they experience trauma they're just dealing with the symptoms and trauma reenactment so reenacting trauma that wasn't resolved in childhood I mean up until I was like twenty six I didn't realize I was doing it at all I was like it's everyone else's fault I was like my emotions would direct my life um I was sabotaging everything all the time blaming everyone else I think most people are in that basket and then when you say you know someone said to me how is your childhood was amazing like blah my parents blah and you start this work you're oh gosh and then you like,

38:41 - Alexandra Corless

38:56 - Melissa Hiemann
then you realize all the generational trauma. And so especially with me becoming a mother, I was like, I, I mean I, we pass it down in our Dna and the way that we treat our children was like how we were treated, like this is our. Programming. And so generations of trauma just being passed down unconsciously. And so when we become trauma informed, a part of that is like we start healing our own trauma and like it's a lifetime journey. I still do things that I'm just like I need to work on that, like I can't be like that to my son.

39:36 - Melissa Hiemann
Oh my God, that happened because of this. And like it's not like you become Trauma informed and all of a sudden you're just like accepting of everyone and you're perfect, right? It's more about recognizing when you're getting triggered and not taking it out on other people. It's about recognizing when someone else is getting triggered and being compassionate to them rather than like, like re traumatizing them, right? And so it's, it's huge. It's going to heal all of society.

40:02 - Melissa Hiemann
The more people recognize there's not going to be so many fights. Poverty, you know, fights the household, stress, like we're under so much activation and stress and all of these belief systems and internal rules and like all of like it's like our. Inner children. Inner children that have been traumatized had painful events that aren't resolved all literally. We're walking around as adults and acting like children in areas of our lives. And so, yeah, being trauma informed is recognizing that in ourselves and working it, recognizing in others with compassion and so trying to change others to make ourselves feel better, but also being an inspiration for others in the way that we conduct ourselves and own our stuff and work through our own stuff.

40:54 - Melissa Hiemann
And that's not the normal explanation of being trauma reform, but that's my experience with being reform.

41:03 - Alexandra Corless
That's absolutely beautiful. And this is also why I totally want to support you. Melissa So, and that's also are a lot of myths and misconceptions about mental health and trauma.

41:20 - Melissa Hiemann
Yeah, I mean I kind of touched on it earlier People get these labels and it is,

41:22 - Alexandra Corless
to say something about it?

41:27 - Melissa Hiemann
you know, ticked off as like having a certain, you got these nine symptoms, you have this label, you'll have to manage it for the rest of your life. Here is some medication. If you look at say for example and you look at the symptoms of add and then you look at the symptoms of having a certain amount of childhood trauma actually they're exactly the same and so for us. It's like there's hope for people that you don't have to just manage your label and just feel how you're feeling for the rest of your life.

41:58 - Melissa Hiemann
You can. It's never too late to have a good childhood. It's never too late to It's not, it's not about becoming the best version of yourself. It's about peeling back all of the stuff that made you believe that you are not incredible and worthy and good enough, right? And so that's what the benefit is of, that is coming back to who you are feeling safe to be, who you are to speak your truth and not be trapped. By what happened to you?

42:30 - Alexandra Corless
Okay, We can, yeah, I, I really would like to talk a bit more about, the, your root cause therapy. Dive a little bit deeper. It, it works, you know, like uh, what kind of therapy you said?

42:56 - Melissa Hiemann
When I initially studied, I studied NLP, hypnotherapy, and timeline therapy. So that was created by Ted James in the 80 s and that was a combination of all the best therapies at that time. And so when I learned it, it was like amazing. But as I went through my journey, like I went through like a period of doing so much of it, I didn't feel anything for like six months and I'm like, something's not right. And then I ended up connecting with a coach who actually was like more of like a Sharman and they, I just all of a sudden got dived into my childhood trauma, but like to feel everything, to feel somatically how I felt rather than normal.

43:41 - Melissa Hiemann
N L P Timeline therapy teaches you to reframe things, but reframing things just pushes the emotions and their somatic energy down into the subconscious And I'm that's I was like, something's right with this, it's And I had to have my own journey that. Like I'm my 1st guinea pig. And so, yeah, when I started getting into somatic therapy in a child, healing and kind of the spiritual side, I realized there was so much missing that could be added to revolutionize that. And so a lot of studying, a lot of healing.

44:19 - Melissa Hiemann
Actually lived with two other healers for almost a year to work on it as well. And we were all teaching each other. One of them specialized in the conscious mind, I was specialized in the subconscious, and then the other girl specialized in the super conscious. And we all have taught each other and we all like separate ways with our own methods after all, which was like beautiful. And so it is really about, okay, it's all the best methods until the 80 s 90 and then we've added like all of these things that are now like the all the best methods coming together.

44:52 - Melissa Hiemann
So it's combining coaching in a child, healing somatically, releasing emotions, re parenting ourselves, generational healing. Trauma in the wound, Okay, And then also with the future stuff, what, what was taught to me back then was like you create your goal and you actually place it in the future of your timeline, right? And so I was, yeah, this is like, if you, I've got the book here, original books from T. James, but It didn't well with me for some reason, and I realized later that you don't know whether you're making goals from your ego.

45:36 - Melissa Hiemann
So we might be making goals where we feel deficient, we might be making goals from where we feel like we haven't had enough love or validation, right? Or our childhood wounding. Something that was missing from our parents. And we're trying to achieve a goal to finally get that validation and love. But when you try to achieve goals like that, like the ego is like a huge, like a black hole, like you'll never feel filled. And so I worked on, okay, let's go from like a spiritual side in terms of let's connect with our soul, with our intuition and ask what is in the highest and greatest good of us and all, what is the best thing for our goal to be like You tell me what is the best thing because your soul knows you more than anyone else, how, how I can be of service.

46:24 - Melissa Hiemann
And so it could be a personal goal or like a mission or like a business whatever.

46:28 - Melissa Hiemann
But that was a completely way do it. Where actually ask. Show me the future version. And I mean you probably experienced it yourself and sorry if you can hear the vacuum cleaner came But like, yeah, so it's like when you do that, like we've had people cry, just overwhelm with joy and relief to have that anxiety just melt away and to be aware of like our purpose and what we meant to be doing or working towards. So, you know, I had someone that their whole like there was like a heroin addict their whole life.

47:06 - Melissa Hiemann
They've never felt love from their parents and mother, they never had that bonding. And so when I've taken them into the future, their future self has experienced love. They felt love for the 1st time. They stopped using after that because they realized the love was there, it was in the future, they felt it. They didn't need the drug anymore, you know. And so, and some people go into the future. They felt a level of peace. They've felt in their lives. Felt peace for the 1st time. And so that's I say to people, you're getting a pathway hey.

47:38 - Melissa Hiemann
You can feel if you continue this journey, you know, and this is in your future and they forget to feel it now. And so it can be completely life changing for someone to experience it in that way and obviously for you to know your purpose. Like ever since I found my purpose, I haven't had one day where I'm bored for like the last nine years. I just can't Bod because I'm like, I, I'm someone that like I pretty much failed school, never read a book, blah, blah to like I'm obsessed with like learning, like everyday I have to learn something.

48:11 - Melissa Hiemann
I'm teaching is a part of my learning. I love sharing everything that I learn. And so it's like there is no boredom, like there is, you know, like the courses out. I have so many ideas. Like, I have so many more lessons to give. Like I just need to find time in my the to like actually record them. Like I'm always bursting with like, oh my God, like so much to share and so.

48:41 - Alexandra Corless
I can't get enough, you know, I was hearing from different students that I got addicted, you know, I mean, it's a positive It's um, yeah, I experience that with clients that uh, these are the best sessions ever when they get connection and, you know, and they feel what, that, that's me, a kind of, you know what it, it carries them through so much, you know, and everything else gets easier to handle it. I mean, when I said, yeah, you solved all my problems. So it's more that I know how to deal with everything, you know, and, you know.

49:24 - Alexandra Corless
Be able to go on my path, and it's just the best that ever happened to me, to be honest. So I'm not sure if there's anything Um, yeah, but also the soul path or soul purpose and um, it gives all these energy too, You know, all the life force is coming back,

49:45 - Melissa Hiemann

49:46 - Alexandra Corless
But also the learnings, you know, during this hearing, especially with RCT, I find like uh, when you go back and you have a total different view on these past situations and a deeper understanding. And also these learnings. I find them very important in comparison with other therapies where they just shift energies, or whatever I find these learnings so important, just long term, you know.

50:19 - Melissa Hiemann
I mean, there's such a different experience to actually having the client have the discoveries themselves. Like it's so much more empowering and you do start to become so much more self aware as a person and you start to have that connection with your intuition and like you said, it makes your life so much easier. And I feel like we're going really. Ru But like the sessions are so structured, like there's data that's in each session, you know exactly how to move from session to session, you know exactly what to work on, like with the client, you know everything.

50:53 - Melissa Hiemann
There's testing and measuring and it's very like that comes from my international business background of like paper pushing and like always working in an office where I like, I like to see data, I like to see numbers. I like to because you can go to healing sessions. They like, yes, you are healed and you walk out and you like walk in for the next one. They forgot what you do last time and it was just like, no, I wanna make this like more tangible and structured and like, so it's a mixture of like the coaching and psychology But also, you know, if you have someone that's not spiritual, these sessions are also fine as well, like they're very structured in a sense that it would make anyone kind of feel with.

51:33 - Melissa Hiemann
They're woo they're very scientific. That's what we found anyway, because we got people from, and I still do get people from different ends of the spectrum. And it is about you as a practitioner because you go through your own healing as a part of certification, it's about, yeah, your own wisdom as well and you're through own

51:57 - Alexandra Corless
one of the win situations Absolutely no. Do you think that uh, narcissistic, psychopaths and sociopath find healing? Is it possible? Or prevention possible because it's a really destructive, state of being, you know, also on society. The effects on society are quite big.

52:31 - Melissa Hiemann
So for me, I look at things in a little bit more, broader way, like again those labels, a bunch of symptoms or behaviors. And so whenever I see, you know, like a drug addict on the street or a homeless person or someone says someone's a narcissist, of course I have total empathy for the person that is on the receiving end, but there's a reason why both of them have come together and why there is like and there are attractions to each other. And so it's kind of like I just look at everyone, like what happened to you growing up, did you not get love?

53:09 - Melissa Hiemann
Cause I see narcissist, I mean I have a toddler and he's a narcissist, like toddlers, a narcissist, they don't care about that, you need to they don't care about like that, you haven't had a shower, they just want everything now, they want everything to be about them, they want all the attention. And so I see narcissist as toddlers that never actually learn how to, they were never suited, maybe not looked after properly, not taught how to like learn about their inner world and their emotions.

53:46 - Melissa Hiemann
And so they got stuck at that age. And so they're an adult acting like a toddler, having ten terms, wanting all the focus to be on them and manipulating situations to get that. And so I look at it with and I've been, I mean I grew up with my stepdad was a narcissist and domestic violence situation. My step mom narcissist, like I'm, and I've been a victim of that, so I'm not taking away from how damaging it is. Psychopaths and sociopaths I don't have so much experience with, but can they heal?

54:21 - Melissa Hiemann
They would have to get to a stage where they would be ready for the deep work. We can't force that upon them and they may never change. Some people think that they can't. I believe that everyone can. I believe that sometimes I've been a narcissist, I own that as well. That comes my fear and pain and fear of not being in control because of what I went. And I learnt some of those traits from the narcissist in my life. Sorry, there's like a thumbs up on the screen for some reason. There we go.

54:54 - Melissa Hiemann
Thumbs up to me. I think Yeah, and I mean,

55:03 - Alexandra Corless

55:04 - Melissa Hiemann
Think that the trauma bonding, so the vibration of someone having attachment growing and the vibration know, and being that kind people please And then vibration of the narcissist, like actually it works well for both of them. Why would they? Come across paths and be so attracted and connect with each other at some point. And why does the victim find it so hard to leave? And obviously it is grooming and doing all these things, but there's a level of like it's serving, it's an unconscious, there's some unconscious benefits that are happening.

55:37 - Melissa Hiemann
And why it's so hard to initially not have the boundaries and self love to say I don't accept this behavior. There can be economic reasons like, you know. They're trapped because of financial abuse. But again, if there was self love and inner boundaries, if they didn't have those wounds and those unmet needs from childhood, they wouldn't even allow that person into their experience initially. So for me, I went through that growing up and then I got into a narcissistic, abusive relationship because I had no awareness of this.

56:22 - Melissa Hiemann
And then, yeah, and then if I was with someone that was perceived weaker, I would be a narcissist. And so I've been on both sides and seen all the angles. And so then I had to go through this whole thing of like healing myself and also having like inner love and healing my inner children my trauma so that I could actually accept someone nice to come in. I was like rejecting nice people. I'm like this is my nervous wasn't like built for this. I was built for drama and abuse and you know, And so being able to accept good things into our life is like a Huge part of the healing journey as well, you know.

57:06 - Alexandra Corless
Just amazing. I really, I really hope that the world will hear you because it's, I find it super important, everything you have to say. So and uh, on the other hand, If there were critics, what would you tell them?

57:28 - Melissa Hiemann
I mean, funny, like I think people have some fears or Because we came in with this alternative therapies, like we're not psychologists or mainstream. So when we are 1st like, how do we change the industry? We just like infiltrate the industry, We just come in and be like, here we are like, you know, we're not gonna fight them or say that they're about, we're just gonna come in and do our thing and like people are just gonna see the results, you know what I mean? And so I've had this level of confidence about that because I feel so strongly about it, because I'm like, I'm trusting my soul with this, you know, I'm trusting that we're doing the right thing, that I I didn't have that, like I'm not qualified enough, feeling that a lot of people kind of have, so I and also I was like high risk kind of party animal, teenager.

58:23 - Melissa Hiemann
So I have a high risk that the threshold as well. So that's like, I know not everyone has that, but yet I, we, when we had the center for four and a half, five years, we literally had like maybe two people questions. In our qualification. That's cause energy that we had about it and we're not hiding it with the Centre for Healing, like we weren't hiding anything we had. You know, some people like I think one lady from the psychologist downstairs, she's like, What are you doing, like, or a Dr., or something and, and then some other person who wasn't a client, the client was trying to say he was getting so much benefit, but his partner was like, but you guys don't have this in that qualification.

59:10 - Melissa Hiemann
And I'm just like, look at it, I'll read out our reviews, like I will read like I opened our reviews and I'm like, I mean, like I'm just, I'm not gonna like say it, I'll give you like the results of the clients that have written these reviews, you know.

59:29 - Alexandra Corless
You know everything, you know,

59:31 - Melissa Hiemann
exactly, exactly. And you know, we might one day do scientific reviews and all of that, but I don't, I don't feel like, I don't feel like I, I need like if, if we get criticized, I'm just like it, it's just one criticism per these ten people that have got so much benefit from it. And yeah, sometimes it hurts and we get comments, but it's often from people that haven't even experienced it. And so it's just like, okay, well, you know, and one thing I used to say to clients at the center, they're like, Oh my God, I can't.

1:00:10 - Melissa Hiemann
It's completely my life. Like I cannot actually believe it. And I'd say like, weird, you need to do weird things to get weird results. And so, yeah, that's kind of like how we encapsulate it. It's, it is a bit different, but um, yeah, it kind speaks for itself and we let, we let that we don't have to defend ourselves. Like another thing that I say is the soul doesn't need to defend itself, only the ego does. Yeah, that's, that's not really.

1:00:39 - Alexandra Corless

1:00:40 - Melissa Hiemann
Like a direct answer, but that's kind of like how I handle or how we, our perspective of critics.

1:00:48 - Alexandra Corless
Well spoken. I like that. Okay, so I, I really would like to hear a little bit more about your future goals for the center and yeah, educating the world. Is there anything else you would like to say?

1:01:05 - Melissa Hiemann
I mean we are not like doing this short term like it is. I know someone said to me, oh, when I'm 80, I retire and I, and I'm like, I don't even, I'm like David Edinburgh, like I don't think I could ever stop. And so for us it's just like from the outside it might look like we just care about ourselves and material things and we obviously want ourselves to be supported and we want to change that perspective of like spiritual people, healers, people that are in the mental health industry should be abundant.

1:01:41 - Melissa Hiemann
And I really hope that I inspire people with that. Yes, it triggers people, but I hope to be an inspiration where. So we're gonna continue to build our personal wealth, but at the same time, you know, we've given all you got. You guys pay once and you get lifetime access and we just support you for years and we will be around for years years and we won't anything I went to a terror reader when we were in the Gold last month and she said, Oh, your business going to be around for a very long I'm Yeah, we're committed to this for our lives, this is our life's work.

1:02:15 - Melissa Hiemann
So the evolution. Alexandra of what that looks like is yeah, eventually I want to have that university, whatever it looks like, but the journey towards that is just the boring,

1:02:27 - Melissa Hiemann
like keep doing what we do everyday, keep serving you guys, answering quick. It looks boring, but it's just like, I know that consistency of being there for you guys, of just continuing to learn and put our work out there, that's just, that's just what it is and whether that we add courses or improve the current courses or maybe, you know, we're just added a retreat like these little bits and pieces, but it's just going to be like that consistent parent that is just always to be around, you know what I mean?

1:02:56 - Melissa Hiemann
So a safe place for people to learn and to continue to grow, whether it's to their own journey or they want to help others.

1:03:09 - Alexandra Corless
I really wanna see that grow and thrive and Be a part of it always.

1:03:12 - Melissa Hiemann
Thank you.

1:03:15 - Alexandra Corless
Absolutely, okay, is there anything else you always wanted to say to the world?

1:03:25 - Melissa Hiemann
Wow, yeah, I missed that question you asked. I didn't that.

1:03:31 - Alexandra Corless
Just in a few words, like the essence of, your main message, yeah, something just.

1:03:38 - Melissa Hiemann
I think that in life in general, a lot of us get overwhelmed by like having a big vision or. Wanting to have their own business or by wanting to like completely change their lives. And what I would say is that if you break it down to just little actions step by step every day, the momentum will accumulate. And to just do step by step and not look at the whole mountain and get scared. Our human bodies like always want comfort, but we're not going to change the world or even change one person around us if we get overwhelmed don't take any action.

1:04:18 - Melissa Hiemann
So understanding psychology your body, the nervous understanding why we do things or don't do things is going to change your life internally, but also allow you to actually have a fulfilling mission in the world, whatever that looks like for you.

1:04:37 - Alexandra Corless
Wonderful, very wonderful. Totally love it, Okay, Anybody has the interest to dive deeper into the Centre for Healing or your courses. Is the website There's also a directory if anybody wants to check out. The practitioners.

1:05:03 - Melissa Hiemann
Definitely see Alexandra. She, the

1:05:08 - Alexandra Corless
Absolutely enjoyed that talk and yeah,

1:05:11 - Melissa Hiemann
Me Thank you much.

1:05:11 - Alexandra Corless
I One.

1:05:13 - Melissa Hiemann
And we can. We are open to.

1:05:17 - Alexandra Corless
Well, okay, thank you so much, Melissa. It was such a pleasure.


Peace & Blessing,
Melissa Hiemann (Creator of Root Cause Therapy)


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